To find the perfect definition/translation English-Spanish/Spanish-English:
1) I look it up in wordreference, and see if there are any discussions about it, i.e. "cream of tartar", or squirrel/chipmunk (ardilla listada). And at this link, borgonyon explains "Estoy de acuerdo con fenix, se le puede llamar "ardillita" en el mismo sentido que llamamos "chinos" a todos los asiáticos, más como un nombre genérico." Beautiful! ;)
2) If I want to know whether the word is Chilean or not (I've lost all perspective), I look in up in the DRAE.
3) If it's a new word or something I don't understand well, often I'll look it up in the drae, or click on the "Spanish definition" in word reference. Often, a word that is more commonly used in Spanish will have a crappy English translation, or it will have one translation when there are really like 5. This is where it's good to read the definition in Spanish.
4) Also, if there are different translations for the same word like "rebuscado" can be translated as "far-fetched", "round-about", "overcomplicated", etc., obviously it's good to understand the different meanings related to different contexts, especially when the different words are in the non-native language. Again, I'll often look up the Spanish definition of each of these words.
5) If it's a complicated thing, a concept, a medical condition, or something that might benefit from a look at wikipedia, I go there next. For instance to have another look at the squirrel/chipmunk difference, here are some links to wikipedia (this was actually more complicated than I'd imagined because there are a ton of different squirrel articles in wikipedia.):
Tree squirrel - this is the squirrel I see in Minnesota. Once I look it up in English, I then click on "Español" to see what the wikipedistas have decided is the translation. Interestingly, there is no link to Español for this one.
Squirrel (in general) - This one doesn't have the Español link either, but it does have one in Esperanto and another in Gallego.
Eastern Gray Squirrel - I believe this one inhabits Minnesota as well. Finally, I find an article with a link to the Spanish article on the sciurus carolinesis (ardilla).
Then, the moment of truth as I look up chipmunk in wikipedia. I click on the Spanish link and find tamias minimus, also called the "ardilla rayada".
So Lydia wasn't far off explaining this difference to her students, at least in relation to wikipedia. ;)
Edited Dec. 4
Ah and 6) Often I'll google expressions in both Spanish and English. Especially for my chilensis blog because sometimes the words aren't super common and appear in neither dictionaries nor wikipedia.
This is my translation method, that mostly works, except when there is no translation, like for the word "vogueing" for example. But then, at least we know there is no translation.
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7 comments:
Haha, nice.
If this was in response to me saying they are the same in Spanish, I know they're not, its just nobody here does. Saying "ardilla listada" has gets blank stares and then something like "ooohhh, ardilla, como Alvin y las ardillas"
(unfortunately not, Alvin y las ardillas listadas" as it apparently should be)
a lot of times wordreference forums just suggest i'll never find a translation that everyone agrees with. one person suggests something, and then 15 other spanish speakers chip in saying they have no idea what that means hahah. well i suppose that happens with the more difficult ones only and we're all stuck looking up the same weak spot in translation.
No, I'm not responding to you saying that they are different in Spanish, because I think most Spanish speakers say "ardilla" for both. There is the difference "ardilla listada" or "ardilla rayada" for Chipmunk, but I doubt most Spanish speakers use it. And you've found they don't even differentiate between the two animals. Probably most Chilean Spanish speakers don't notice the physical difference.
The motive for this post was just to explain my translation method, and you gave me a good example: chipmunk vs. squirrel. This method might be useful to someone. I looove looking up words/expressions in word reference and wikipedia.
I know, word reference forum people often disagree. I've been told my use of the word "ocupar" like "utilizar" is outright wrong, until, a Chilean chipped in on my behalf, and said that's how it is used here. (neener-neener pumpkin eaters!) Mostly I find responses made by Chileans are useful, whereas the Spanish, Mexican,etc. vocabulary isn't necessarily useful. But they all pretty much agreed on the translation for cream of tartar.
Of course, Chileans don't always respond to every thread, but they are on there a fair amount. Chile represent! And the Argentinian responses are also pretty on target for our use of Spanish in Chile.
I mostly seem to find a translation for the word I'm looking for though. Except "vogueing". No one had a response for that. I can't think of another expression that they couldn't translate for me. Do you remember any of the ones that caused you problems?
The chipmunk/squirrel one, for me is solved. In Spanish they are both referred to as ardillas and if I want to distinguish between the two, a chipmunk is an ardilla listada or rayada. And I'd do exactly what you did, show my students pictures of the two so they can see they are different. Simple enough.
By the way, on one of the wikipedia links, I read that chipmunk is an ojibwe word. Pretty cool ;)
Oh and my comment "So Lydia wasn't far off explaining this difference to her students, at least in relation to wikipedia. ;)" is Minnesotan for "So Lydia was right on when explaining this difference to her students..." hahaha. After 5 years in Chilito, I still speak Minnesotan. Gaud! Perhaps I'll have to learn to live with it. ;)
hahah don't worry i remember minnesotan... i was more worried maybe you read my post and thought i didn't look it up in the dictionary before claiming they were the same.
true, the chileans and argentinians are usually pretty right on but a lot of times the mexican posters' comments basically send me backwards (or rather, just dont help cuz they don't apply here often)
the origin of chipmunk is interesting. my first thought was that its kinda logical because maybe "chip" means something as ojibwe are also known as chippewa; but when looking it up ""The name "Chippewa" is an anglicized version of "Ojibwa."" which is kinda neat in itself.
i dont remember any specific problems i've had with words anymore. i remember doing a couple translation projects that i got stumped.
vogueing- well, i don't blame them. i bet most people couldnt describe that in english ;-)
I love hearing about your process! It's amazing how finding out how to hook up my wireless router is beyond me, but I'll look at six different sources in two language to figure out how to say a word. And otorongo is jaguar in Peru. This information will be with me forever. Language geeks, the lot of us.
Jajajaj Siempre he tenido el problema entre squirrel & chipmunk, sobre todo por culpa de Alvin y las “ardillas”!!!!
Claramente el dilema es como se dice en Chile, y lamentablemente para nosotros sólo existen las ardillas, eso independientemente si tienen cola peluda, rayas en las espalda, alas, trompa, etc. Jajaja.
Si se quiere llegar al fondo del problema entre squirrel & chipmunk es necesario acudir al Scientific Name. Según esto ambas están bajo Rodentia y dentro de la familia de las Sciuridae, y tal como mencionaste chipmunk está asociado a las Tamias, pero OJO también existen las Tamiasciurus que comúnmente se les llama squirrel. Anyway lo interesante es que siempre que dan el nombre científico aparece al lado el nombre común, de este modo y sólo en América del norte hay más de 60 tipos de Sciuridae como:
Tamias minimus (Least Chipmunk)
Tamiasciurus hudsonicus (Red Squirrel)
Sciurus arizonensis (Arizona Gray Squirrel)
Finalmente tengo claro que squirrel & chipmunk son familiares pero no son la misma cosa, y si alguien me pregunta como se dice chipmunk en chileno dire:
“Chipmunk es una Ardilla pero no una squirrel”
Referencia: http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/image_menu.cfm?family=33
hahaha. Nice conclusion Christian. That's a good way of explaining it. ;)
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