So my experience with friendships with other gringos-friends I’ve made in
She gave me a very simple, good piece of advice. She said, you need to develop your “filter” for friendships. Just her saying that was enough for me, I understood what I had to do and put her advice to really good use. It's like I keep my new Chilean friends at arm's distance, so to speak, and don't trust them until we have a solid, understandable history. If I don't understand how the other person is relating to me, then I assume they are operating from different values and principles than my own and I don't trust them. I don't treat them bad but no me entrego, tampoco. I got along much better after receiving this advice, but not before stumbling along with it all for awhile. The nice thing about people who seem friendly and then turn out to be assholes is that it really makes you appreciate your real friends.
This I think is pretty upsetting to gringos, I've noticed other gringos go through similar things. For us, it sucks, because we like to trust each other. We're just used to it. Unless a gringo seems like a total jerk, I generally trust them. And really, to come to the realization that I couldn't trust anyone off the bat was pretty earth-shaking and upsetting for me, but I'm over it now because I'm blessed with a bunch of really nice friends here in Chile, both chilenos and afuerinos.
Another thing I found is that in Chile, it was much easier to make friends with guys than girls, at first anyway. I think it partly had to do with that I knew more guys than girls. In fact, I knew few chilenas when I arrived. The other factor was that lots of Chilean guys who I thought were my friends-like in a platonic-gringo-friendship sort of way-were actually joteandome. (Platonic friendships between males and females seem few here, not that common.) Ultimately they were interested in hanging out with me, not because they wanted to be my friends, but because they wanted to be my boyfriends. To be honest, I still find this annoying.
But my filter reminds me:
- that most guys who show interest want to date (I'm not sure this is totally true, but compared with gringo guys it happens waaaay more often, In fact it rarely happens with gringos.)
- that I shouldn't trust new friends until they gain my confianza. I sort of have a guilty-until-provend innocent mentality with the Chilean "other". Sorry, but I didn't arrive with that, so there is something to it.
- trust my intuition, almost always
- if a person is consistently buena onda and I enjoy their company and my intuition says they are ok, and we have a bit of history together, then I trust them.
July 13: I'd like to add that this is my extreme filter, the one I had to develop four years ago because my social life was too unstable and unpredictable. I still use it from time to time. However, for the most part, I don't have to, because I've done a really good job of surrounding myself with really cool Chileans (and fellow foreigners) that I trust. This filter is quite useless when I'm hanging with my friends.
14 comments:
I have to say this was totally not the post I needed today as I am having a people-don't-respect-and-put-time-and-care-into-friendships day that is making me lost hope in humanity. Specifically being disappointed in a chilean female who has been close to my best friend for move the a decade because I am getting really tired of a one sided friendship.
That said, chilenas aren´t always great friends to each other either. There is cometition and jealousy that I am not used to back home. And while it is true that it is difficult to create male-female nonsexual friendships here, for me they have been really rewarding... granted, I had to get them to think of me as a sister.
Sorry you're having a hard time with this Clare. Wish I could say something to make you feel better. I had that sensation of losing my faith/hope in humanity too. That's very well put. That sensation, for me, eventually faded away, and since then my filter has been priceless.
Interestingly, after I had the experiencd of being betrayed by a Chilean who I thought was my good friend, I felt anxious for two weeks straight, an emotion that I rarely felt back in the day and now is more common for me. I suppose there is a certain unstability inherent in this type of relationship, because my friend was not always straight forward with me and I used a lot of suspense-of-disbelief. Hehehe. Not a good idea with Chileans.
But the more I get to know the kids in my capoeira group (they are the group of Chileans with whom I have the most contact), the more faith is restored in humanity.
I wish I could disagree with your perspective on making Chilean friends, but I can’t. Except I do strongly disagree with the idea that Chileans steal stuff although, interestingly enough, all Chileans seem to believe that Chileans steal stuff. Friendship here is not as strong as in the US and it's taken me a long time to accept that. I also have had problems with girls who act like the want a platonic relationship when they want more.
Woah, of my whole entry I would think the part most people would agree with was that lots of Chileans are total ladrones and both Real Chile and Kyle disagreed. How crazy! My Chilean friends aren't ladrons, but boy have I had my share of encounters with people and their "friends" (more or less close to me) who have stolen from me. Including the fact that I had my camera stolen as an exchange student here, and I totally realized like 5 years later that it was a "friend" of mine who set me up to have it stolen. Someone else stole it, but I'm positive my friend set me up, but I don't want to get into details, because I try not to say bad things about specific people on my blog. Granted I totally distanced myself from the people who stole from me, but I still run into people who steal from time to time (generally friends or acquaintances of friends).
Chileans are known worldwide for being thieves. Some of them go to Europe to "work", which in part is why Europe has some pretty strict policies against Chileans. A friend of Vuko's went to Europe like two years ago to check out Universities in Spain, but she went to England first and they detained her at the airport and accused her of being a thief (which she isn't) and sent her back to Chile on the next flight. She can't go back to Europe for 10 years. Her case was talked about on national tv here in Chile. But this happened to her because of the amount of Chileans who go to Europe to steal stuff. She suffered the consequences of her co-nationals' actions, however unfair this is.
Joaquin Edward Bello, a famous Chilean writer has a chronicle about how good Chileans are at robbing things. It can even be a source of pride to be "vivo" and to fool the other people. I can't remember which of his books it is in, but he relates a story about some Chileans who were in London. (I believe they were in the Chilean Navy.) Anyway, they meet this shopkeeper of a London jewelry store who has just installed a new security alarm. (Joaquin Edwards Bello died in 1968, so it would have had to been a while before this.) He asked these Chilean Navy guys to try to break in to see if t he alarm worked. So they let a cat into the store window, who set off the alarm. The shopkeeper saw that it was a cat and relaxed, but he didn't reset the alarm. That's when the Chileans were able to break in without being detected.
This isn't to say there aren't thieves in the US or that all Chileans are thieves. I'm just saying stealing is quite common here. There are armed security guards in the supermarkets. In most of the pharmacies they have the products behind the counter and in the supermarkets where I shop, the chocolate, and the more expensive beauty products (including the $4 dollar bottles of pantene shampoo) are either under lock and key or they are put in these plastic boxes that make it super difficult to get the product out slyly and slip it into you pocket or jacket.
But I'm happy you guys haven't had bad experiences with thieves here. Knock on wood. I hope your good luck continues!!! Cheers to good luck!
Well as I said before, Chileans all seem to think that they are thieves and it is true that a lot of Chileans (although not all) go to Spain to steal stuff. That is where this idea of Chileans being thieves comes from. I guess I'll have to write my next entry about debunking the "Chileans are thieves" myth in order to fully explain myself.
Hi! Im new here, I come from Kyle´s blog... :)
I agree with your feeling about how chileans are, and how they manage their friendships...
And it´s true that there´s a lot of thieves out there, but don´t say "chileans are thieves"... god, that hurts!
Saying that, and saying "all around the world chilenas are famous for that", is like saying all argentinian people are amazing playing football... because they are famous for that.
But no. They have 22 very good players, but it doesn´t mean the rest of the people in the country play, and play very good.
We have some (ok, a looooot) of thieves... but it´s not what the most chileans do... I´d say, we chileans, hate to live like this, with this stress thinking "I hope nobody steals me anything today". It´s a thing that happens in Chile, and it has reasons (social, economics, cultural...), but it´s not what most chileans do, be sure.
Sorry about my english! And best wishes in my country... It´s not easy, and I know it (I left for 4 years and it was HARD to come back).
See you! :)
Sorry to overgeneralize with the "Chileans are known worldwide for being thieves". Actually its more like in Western Europe where some Chileans seem to have a reputation for robbing (which often screws over other Chileans who go to turistear or study). And clearly not all Chileans rob. If they did I wouldn't live in Chile. But what is true to my experience is that I always have to watch my stuff here in Chile, except when hanging with friends in a private place.
And I agree that this is due to social, economic and cultural reasons.
Hi!!! How's it going??
I LOVE being able to let my guard down now that I'm back in the states. I have been reading this book called "The Art of Happiness" and it's about how important it is to trust others and feel a true connection with people and you're right - it's so frustrating to constantly have to go against that!
When I arrived to Chile as a student I was incredibly trusting and did a lot of naive things. I've somehow never had anything stolen from me, never had an unfortunate experience apart from a few little things. Once I left 20 luca in a taxi because I didn't have the correct change and ran into the house to get it and was so upset when I returned and the taxi driver had left. I cried and my host mother told me that I'm way too trusting. Then 45 minutes later the driver returned to the house after he got the change!!! Crazy.
However, it's true, maybe you'll be robbed in Chile, and I have heard of worse happening, but I never felt like being too trusting would result in anything worse than having something stolen from me. In Chile I was scared of having my wallet or camera stolen, but I never felt physically unsafe.
Whereas, in the states, I'm petrified of opening the front door to a stranger or leaving my door unlocked at night, not because of theft but because I'm afraid some psychopath will rape and torture me.
However, I never had much luck with chilean women as friends. I did meet a few people I liked here and there, but generally I hardly ever found anyone who was genuinely "buena onda" and if I did it was nearly impossible to stay in contact.
For a long time it felt like I was a "failure" because I returned to the US without a single chilean girlfriend and a ton of gringo friends who I really enjoyed. Then I slowly figured out what you are writing about. But you put it much better.... :)
Hey Amanda, fun to hear from you. Wow, how awesome the taxi dude brought you your change. I'd never heard of that happening before.
Yeah, the US has its problems with crime too. One time I had the unfortunate experience of being in a hotel lobby in Minneapolis when it was being held-up and my dad and I got a gun pointed at our heads and were told to go lay down by the front desk where another dude was getting all the cash he could. The next day I was flying to Spain for the year and was sooo glad to be leaving the United States. That was quite the farewell. In Spain you actually need to take a pyschological test before they give you an arms permit. Whereas the people in the States are armed to the teeth, and there seem to be more psychos there, what with the school shootings and other violent crime.
So yeah petty theft isn't that big a deal, it's just sort of annoying when I run into or end up hanging out with people I don't trust, and I have to watch my things.
I'm going to jump in on the stealing debate because I talked about it with Kyle before she posted her entry, saying that I got your point but disagreed about the stealing. Clearly, there is more stealing here than where I'm from in the US - I can't speak for the US as a whole, but in my CA home town and part of LA where I've lived, I don't watch my purse as much, see guards in supermarkets, or generally have theft in the back of my mind. So in that way, I definitely agree that my awareness of stealing is much higher here, as well as having had my own experience with it (totally naive, trusting gringa left her backpack in a room at la U, which in retrospect was stupid, and I paid with my iPod). I didn't know what you're saying about Chileans being known internationally as thieves, but considering how a few bad people can ruin a reputation, I can believe it.
That said, I've never felt that way with friends, Rodolfo's friends, friends of friends, etc. That was where I said, "ok, I think you've had some bad experiences, but that is definitely not true of my experiences!" I have never had any problems with theft with Chilean or American friends, and I definitely haven't seen stealing from friends as a cultural thing. I will mention that most of my friends have been made through someone else or through work, so maybe you as a student making your own friends have just been unlucky enough to meet people who pretended to be your friends in order to steal from the little gringa? Don't know what the "truth" is, just wanted to share that my experience has been different from yours in this way.
Maeskizzle, i think a big part of your problem in trusting people here and making friends would be that you believe the hype about the 'lanza internacional'. I'm not denying that it has happened, but the truth of the matter is that Spanish people are racist towards all people coming from South America (eg. 'sudaca'), Northern Africa and Eastern Europe, and they exacerbate these stereotypes (unfortunately so do the chileans themselves). But its the same bullshit as believing that 'all Americans are stupid' or 'all black people have rhythm' or 'all Asians are good at math'. Even if you have had something stolen from you, its no worse that would happen to you in any developing country and even countries like America. How can you expect Chileans to trust you when you believe stupid stereotypes about them???You called yourself out but the fact that you mentioned it to begin with gives away how your really think.
A gringa who lives in Santiago
Anonymous, I didn't arrive in Chile with the stereotype of the "Chilean lanza". I knew almost nothing of Chile when I first came here like 10 years ago. The first couple of months I was here, I had my camera and a bunch of money stolen by the second Chilean friend I'd ever had. Granted my filter for making Chilean friends was not yet developed at this time.
I don't expect Chileans to trust me. I'm not asking for that. I'm just describing differences I notice between my experiences in the States and here. Sorry to have picked a sore issue...
While I'm not looking for Chileans to trust me, I get the impression that they trust me even more than their fellow Chileans.
I'm not saying "all Chileans are thieves." I'm saying I have to take more precautions here than in the States, because if I don't it's more probable I'll be robbed or stolen from again. Just so this is clear, I don't think that the States is better than Chile. The States has its good and bad things just like Chile does.
I've been unlucky with people stealing from me here in Chile, and the Chilean friends I have now would never steal from me and I totally trust them. Emily, good point, I trust my boyfriend's friends too, and obviously my own friends that I have now. But I am leery of new people I meet. If they are good friends of my good friends, I don't have a problem, but if they are like friends/acquaintances and I notice the bond isn't that strong I don't always trust them right away. And sorry you got your ipod stolen. That sucks.
As far as petty theft, I do think it's more common here.
In the United States I've never had someone go into my hotel room and steal books, money, and credit cards from me. Although, I'm sure it happens there too. But that happened to my folks and I in an expensive hotel in Torres del Paine, where no safe was provided to store a bit of cash and credit cards. And it would have never occurred to me to have put the guide books in the safe.
I had my purse stolen from me in Valpo. The two dudes snuck up behind me and cut the leather strap off my purse from behind, grabbed the purse and ran away. I must say, though, they were nice enough to throw my pase escolar on the street behind my University where someone turned it in and I got it back.
Here in Chile I often walk with my backpack on the front of my body rather than my back, because people will open your zippers on your pack if you wear it on your back.
I'm sure there are plenty of things robbed in the States too, but I just run into it more here. One reason is because Chileans aren't nearly as well off as people in the States. Walking through poor areas in the States can get you robbed quickly too.
On travel forums and guides petty theft is sometimes mentioned as a problem in Chile as well as other Latin American countries. For example: http://adventures.worldnomads.com/
destination/44/travelguide/4.aspx
As far as problems go, it's an annoying one, but it could be worse.
I'm sorry that the term "sudaca" is sometimes used in Spain to refer to South Americans. Those who look down on South Americans miss out.
I think that, at least partially, the cultural difference when it comes to theft is the perception of the value of posessions in the mind of the owner. I'm English (married to a Chilean) and have spent some of my time living around traditional horse-drawn travelling gypsies here in England - who seem to have developed a cultural sport of theft from one anoter. I thought long and hard about why this was and realised that it comes down to the fact that possesions have a very different significance and value in their culture. It really isn't personal if your best friend steals from you - your posessions are more like a bag of sweets that you carry than being a part of your very soul! They also have the cultural idea that everything is for sale and has a price, even your pets - it's actually very hard to convince them that you wouldn't want to sell something because it had a sentimental value to you. The concept of posessions being things of sentimentality and very personal or valuable to you in any sense other than monetary value is cultural. I gave my mobile phone to a good Chilean friend who was going to get it unlocked for me - he admitted to me that he had been tempted to say he'd lost it and keep it for himself - he didn't in the end though as I guess he realised that it would be a bit to obvious, but he is good guy and a good friend. Granted it is distubing if someone contrives to rob you of everything that you own - but loss of things from your pockets - I'd say it's better to learn to be less materialistic than to shut down your defences and start blocking out life's experiences. Just my thoughts :)
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