Caveat Lector: I must admit this is a bit of a cesspool of sometimes partially articulated ideas, that some day could maybe be formed into a coherent blog entry or essay or conversation. But meanwhile, it is what it is. (This is actually a suitable description of my life in general.)
A while back, I read Tyff's blog entry on what Chileans think of gringos where she describes a painfully ugly scene with a bunch of gringos (and one particularly ugly one) in Ruby Tuesday. She notes that she calls Americans "people from the States" (as do I) and gives a bit of an explanation of why. I started commenting on Tyff's blog about the topic of the usage of the word "American", but realized that my comments had turned into a whole post, which I've just taken the time to publish. She touches on a topic that goes unnoticed by most Americans. What is an American? Lots of Latin Americans think that Americans (from the States) shouldn't call ourselves Americans and the fact that we have appropriated an adjective/noun that in Spanish, describes all of North and South America, is on our part, very chauvinistic. In this entry, I take a multifaceted look at this problem. Hopefully it's somewhat coherent. Stealing the dude's words: There are a lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what-have-yous...
Here in Chile I refer to myself as a gringa in informal and general contexts and as an estadounidense (united statesian) in formal and specific contexts. "América"** for the most part refers to the continents of North and South America. America is not equal to América. American does not equal americano. They are false friends and lead you to histo-linguistic warfare.
To a point, different geography models even weigh in on this discussion. I was taught there are 7 continents. Latin Americans are generally taught there are six. North and South America are fused as one. There is also the six continent Eurasia model where North and South America are separate continents, but Europe and Asia are one continent. And there's the five-continent Eurasia model that excludes Antartica.
Back to the central point, I think the best points for defending our use of the word American are: 1) People living in the States were Americans and the States was referred to as America since the U.S. Constitution was written. 2) People from the United States of Mexico are Mexicans and people from the United States of Brazil are Brazilians thus people from the United States of America should be... 3) Most people in the States probably aren't aware that the Spanish word "americano" means anyone from América. I think it would be almost impossible to convince your average gringo he's no longer an American, as he understands the word. 4) if I'm not American, what am I? a yankee? a United Statian? a United Statesian? It's a possibility but sounds better in Spanish.
That said, I've gotten very used to thinking of an americano as anyone from América, and now when I use the word in English (especially here in Chile), it's just too confusing. Sometimes Chileans ask me if I'm an americana, because they know we call ourselves Americans in the States, but that's just even more confusing, because I know they call themselves americanos as well. However, when speaking in English, I mostly refer to Americans as "people from the States" or "U.S. citizens". When speaking in Spanish, as I said above, I use the much more specific term "estadounidenses". Personally I think we've really gotten the shaft on this whole nationality name thing. What were the writers of the Constitution thinking? There is no good answer to what we should be called. The term American is waay to confusing to use abroad, especially in Latin America. While I don't like the term "United Statesian", I kind of like "Statesian". I could live with being a Statesian. But try convincing the rest of the people from the States that they are Statesians and not Americans. Good luck! (So I'll refer to U.S. Citizens as Statesians for the rest of this entry.)
Part of the thing with language and culture is that it pays to understand the perspectives of the people around you. If a Chilean talks about América, (s)he is probably talking about the unified continent of North and South America. If your average yanqui in yanquilandia talks about America, (s)he's probably talking about the United States. And, by the way, yanqui is not a good term to use either because it, too, means different things in different places.
Now while Chileans have often told me that Statesians are chauvinistic because we consider only ourselves to be Americans, I don't necessarily agree. Chileans think that Statesians realize that everyone from North and South America are Americans. This has never crossed your average Statesian's mind. EVER. While I do believe many "Statesians" are culturally egocentrical, and probably even think of Latin America (and perhaps the rest of the world) as the State's backyard, either to be enjoyed, dominated or ignored, they have no idea that Latin Americans consider themselves to be Americans too. There are Statesians who simply don't think about the rest of the world. They are content where they are, so why go elsewhere? So we Statesians call ourselves Americans more because of cultural ignorance than a chauvinistic attitude. Although cultural ignorance and chauvinism are related and somewhat similar. For the record, many Statesians also look down on Europeans as well (it's not just Latin Americans they look down on).
It's interesting to note, while some Latin Americans look at Statesians' use of the word "American" with indignation, many Canadians would be insulted if you called them Americans. Hahaha. To each his own.
Also I think on large cultural lines, Latin Americans have a SEVERE INFERIORITY COMPLEX and that's why this debate bothers them so much. This is a product of their history and the fact that the idea of white supremacy was accepted here by intellectuals such as Andrés Bello (Pratt) and propagated by the history that was (and is) taught in school here. Plus many Latin American countries didn't do as good a job erraticating the natives as my anscestors did. So while they look down on the indigenous, many have indigenous blood. This is culturally fertile ground for the creation of magical realism and for hibrid cultures.
Also Latin Americans seem to be much more aware of the United States than Statesians are of Latin América.
Comments like "Chile is 10 years behind." "Chile is so behind." "Chile isn't a developed country.", while I think perhaps they have a grain of truth, when seen from a certain perspective, are a bit simplistic and are a result of this white supremist attitude which continues to reproduce itself. It's a belief in "progress". That we must "progress." Define "progress" in a general sense for me please! Because it's used in a vague general sense a lot. When people make comments like these, they are referring to Chile as inferior, compared to some vague ideal that they often don't have a clear picture of. Many Chileans seem to want Chile to turn out like the U.S. and/or Europe, this Edenic place to be worshiped and imitated. Most of these people have never been to either the U.S. or Europe. It's a grass-is-always-greener sort of mentality.
And clearly each culture has its good and bad points.
So I suppose this whole conflict of opinions will continue. The analysis and attitudes that this problem evokes in people, reflects the identity of the speaker more than it approaches a resolution to the problem. It's rich historical-cultural-lingüistic terrain.
Here are a couple forum threads that debate the unresolved America/América controversy:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=616046&highlight=mexicans
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=21002
There are a few more threads like this on wordreference including one I started about Mexicans, but I couldn't find one.
Here in Chile, they often think Mexico is part of South America. I was always taught it was part of North America so I started a thread in a cultural forum to see what Mexicans considered themselves. The general response was all three, first Mexican, then Latin American, then North American.
**I've seen this distinction America/América distinction made by Mary Louise Pratt.
Runnin’ Down a Dream
3 weeks ago
17 comments:
I have read people referring to the US as Amerika and Statesians as Amerikans... apparently the word connotes that the US is a repressive, fascist country.
When I talk to other gringos and refer to someone from the US, I always say American just because there really is no other appropriate word. I suppose we need to just start saying Statesian and make people get used to it.
You don't know how many times I have had this conversation in my head as well with other people from around the world. You just managed to actually articulate it into a coherent and thought-provoking post.
I first heard this idea of people from the US feeling like they own the term "American" back in a Chicano studies class at UCLA. During one of my first classes teaching here, I wasn't thinking and said "You are Chilean, I am American" and was quickly corrected about who I am by my students. But then the exercise was screwed up cause I had to add, "I am FROM the United States" which complicated things a little.
I agree with you on a lot of things here, though I think "statesian" sounds a bit antiquated. Instead of saying "soy de los estados unidos" or "soy estadounidense/norteamericana", I just make it easier for myself and say I'm Californian.
That doesn't work for me either. When I say I'm Minnesotan, or I'm from Minnesota, Spanish speakers here me say that I'm Venezuelan, from Venezuela. I swear. Tell a couple Spanish speakers you are from Minnesota and see what they say.
V. worked with a guy from Venezuela for a while. The guy'd been to North Dakota and Minnesota and when people asked him where he was from, he said Venezuela, and the gringos thought he said Minnesota. So I guess it goes both ways. Plus he looks like he's from Minnesota. He's very white and has light colored hair.
Plus lots of people have never heard of Minnesota :(
amen. love the post.
this was on my "list of things to write about" list that i actually made and subsequently ignored.
as much as i hate that we use the word american, like you said... that is the appropriate term in english to call someone of that nationality from the US, and it frustrates me doubly that people try to argue that with me without considering the relevant points you explained here. (not to mention, assuming just by looking at me that i am wanting to argue and believing that i personally am a huge advocate of calling ourselves "Americans", where that comes from i dont know... )
in my mind in general the person who calls themselves american (especially someone IN latin america using the term) is not TRYING to be egocentric or ignorant but rather using the appropriate learned term. thats why some of us like myself, occasionally catch ourselves using American to describe nationality even though they wish this conflict didnt exist. im sure if we had another term (well, accepted official or something of the like) many people with consciousness on the issue would gladly use it, although changing it now would for sure cause a rough spot in terms of pride, custom, etc...
i think the canadian thing is especially relevant bc they obviously, like the US, are thinking of the English usage and connotation of the word. to them like to us, saying american refers to the US.
while there are so many egocentrism... issues involving the US, in my opinion this debate is a language problem more than anything. to me its the words themselves and what theyve come to mean to us rather than what we're trying to prove (superiority? a common argument) by using them.
lol p.s. they ALWAYS think i say Venezuela! i thought that was just me.
yeah, hahaha, I have to say mee-nay-soe-tah for them to understand
And then I specify that it's near Chicago and the border of Canada.
And they always ask what CITY are you from? Like assuming we're all from New York, LA, Chicago and Miami. But I guess I should answer no soy de una ciudad, soy de un pueblo. I'll have to make this new answer part of my repertoire.
(I'm from Grand Rapids, a town some of us cariñosamente refer to as G-Rock. I think because of all crazy stuff that goes down in this cosmopolitan metropolis.)
I loved this post! I tend to have less of a problem with people referring to themselves as "Americans" than I do with people calling the United States "America", thus ignoring the rest of the continent(s). Although I admit it sometimes still bugs me when people say "I'm American" but it totally depends on the context and I think you're right in that usually they are not saying it to be chauvinistic.
A problem I have in Chile, though: when I say "soy estadounidense" they say "ahh, eres norteamericana" which is technically true, but vague. I'm not sure if Chileans assume that the US is the only country that's important in North America, or if estadounidense=norteamericana or what. I'm curious what would happen if someone from Canada said "Soy canadiense"...would the Chileans say "ahh eres norteamericana" or not?
Let's try it. Let's start telling people we're Canadian and see what they say. hahaha I think they won't say I'm north american, because "Canadian" is pretty specific.
great post. this whole discussion always annoys me because it is SO presumptuous on the part of both Chileans & Americans who think that we (USA people) are being ethnocentric by saying American. how abotu this: not everyone is perfect and it's a totally understandable mistake- if it even is a mistake (and i dont think it is and will continue to call myself American). for as many times as people -usually Chileans here- have given me shit about saying i'm an American (just happened on my blog the other day), you'd really think they would have their facts straight first bc, as you so astutly point out, the term is NOT clear and so anyone who would argue or get offended by the usage by an American of the term American is both overly-sensitive and uninformed! you'd think that when people get so adamant about arguing a point they'd at least have some idea what they were talking about instead of just assuming that you do or say X thing bc you are an ethnocentric A-hole. though i suppose i'm probably just as guilty as the next guy for arguing about stuff i know nothing about...oh well
You should check out Alfredo Jaars artwork, he dives into the whole American/American issue.
Katina: I totally agree. Well said.
Anonymous: I checked out Jaar's art. It's very interesting. The beauty of his art on the "America/América" issue is that he put the sign in Time's Square and was almost deported. Hilarious!
Kudos to Jaar for being risque!
However, saying that the United States is not America is not something I haven't heard a thousand Chileans tell me. And they think they are saying something new. For me it's just a worn-out argument that repeats itself over and over again. It's an issue that has no resolution. AND while I understand the Chilean view on the problem, I have yet to meet a Chilean who understands my arguments.
It's probable you've totally missed the point of my post.
Those of you who tell me I'm not American refuse to see both sides of the story. You only can understand your interpretation that I'm "chauvanistic" for calling myself an American. (Which I actually don't do very often because it's linguistically confusing here in Chile.) You are wrong. I'm not a chauvinist. I just don't have my "own" nationality. It's really easy for you to tell me what I can't call myself, but do you present any decent solutions to the problem? No.
While I consider myself American, I do not consider myself americana. These two words are false friends. They do not mean the same thing. You Chileans define "americana" in your language, and we'll define American in ours. How 'bout that for a resolution?
Heather, love the post and especially your last comment. I do see it as an English/Spanish distinction in a lot of ways. In English, the word is American. That's just how you say "someone from the US," and being offended by that is sort of like me saying I'm offended because a word in another language sounds like a bad word in English. I don't think of the continent as America. In my mind there are two continents: North America and South America. It amuses me to no end that if I were to call myself "americana" that would be horribly offensive and selfish and bad of me, but somehow it's ok to use "norteamericana" to mean that I'm from the US - Mexico and Canada don't exist? Whereas if I were to say "I'm North American" in English, I would just be saying which continent I'm from, without excluding the possibility that people from other countries can also be North American. Although I have to admit I don't have much continent pride, I don't think being North American is like being European, with some sort of unifying identity.
That said, I do try to say "people from the US" and refer to my country as "the States" or "the US" when in mixed company just to avoid confusion or offense.
Si de verdad quieres saber porqué los latinoamericanos hacemos esa diferencia entre amiricanos y estadounidenses, te recomiendo revisar la historia de la política exterior estadounidense, especialmente la "Monroe Doctrine" y la doctrina del "Manifest Destiny"...
Hablar de "estadounidenses" es casi una defensa sicológica contra una eventual invasión militar estadounidense, bajo la excusa que por ser "americanos" (people from american continent), debemos ser protegidos por los "americanos" (people from the US)...
Ejemplos hay muchos, pero espcialmente interesantes son la anexión de Texas, la guerra de Estados Unidos con España, donde Cuba y Puerto Rico se convirtieron casi en colonias estadounidentes, y la independencia de Panamá de Colombia, financiada por Estados Unidos para la construcción del Canal.
Cesar: While I haven't studied US History in depth, I was taught in the seventh grade about U.S. intervention, particularly in Latin America. I know that the US gov't took California and most of the Southwest from Mexico. Of course, the Europeans, in general stole "America" from the indigenous people here. Why aren't you interested in their rights too?
A few years ago, my seventh-grade history teacher invited four El Salvadorians to her class to let them tell their story about the atrocities of their Civil War, 1980-1992 (which was financed in a large part by the US gov't). That would be like a Chilean history teacher inviting the Mapuche people to history class to talk about how the Chilean government treats them, or inviting a Bolivian to class to explain why Chile should give Bolivia some land on the Pacific Ocean. O sea, it has yet to happen.
I know my government is an imperialist one. Who doesn't? And while I did vote for Obama and I have faith in him and his strategy, I'm clear my government will continue with its imperialist policies for the most part. I imagine it will be better than the last eight years, but I don't expect some kind of miracle, unless it comes from the PEOPLE, not the government.
I think Statesians living abroad (us) generally understand the Latin American point-of-view, because we've been told it over and over and over again. I've been hearing it for 15 years. Unfortunately, the President of the United States has yet to call me to ask for my opinion on his foreign policy decisions.
My gov't will probably give up its imperialist policies about the time the Chilean gov't gives the land in the South back to the mapuches. Because if we want to talk about the rightful owners/inhabitants of "America", I think it's necessary to go a little further back in history.
I just read this post. It's terrific! Great job. I've discussed this on many occasions with Latin Americans and "US" Americans.
I remember when I was in Venezuela, some drunk friends of mine got into a fight with a guy at a bar trying to convince him they were AMERICANS and he wasn't. That is not smart.
However, I think that, in English at least, we lack the proper adjective to desribe ourselves and thus mean no harm by calling ourselves Americans.
There is an easy solution to this. In both Spanish and English, "American" should refer to people from the United States and in both Spanish and English, "Americano" should refer people from America(the continent). Its Americano that Spanish speakers get all riled up about. The word "American" means nothing to them. Likewise, people from the US will always refer to themselves as Americans. Its too deeply ingrained our culture to give it up. I am an American and I always will be. "Americano", however, means nothing to me. I think this is a perfectly fair compromise, and its the only one that Americans(from the US) would go for.
I do rather like the sound of Statesians though. Mabey that could be a less comonly used nickname similar to yankee(as its used in English)
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